In response to ASW20's post regarding our hangar project, here is an update..

Our capital improvement plan covers a 5 year period and includes new hangars. We have the money and the owners support. A contractor has been found but permitting in the Green Swamp Conservation area is difficult. Still, we are proceeding forward. We finished a drainage project before the Seniors which corrected a serious flooding problem. Thank you for checking up on us. Please let us know when your ready to lease a hangar.

Sincerely,
Rich Owen
Vice President
Seminole Flying and Soaring

Thank you for the update.

Well after an entire year you have not even been successful with even a permit, then it won't happen anytime soon at that rate!!!

I won't get my hopes up at all.

What else is included in your "5 year plan"?

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 5:00:40 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Thank you for the update.
>
> Well after an entire year you have not even been successful with even a permit, then it won't happen anytime soon at that rate!!!
>
> I won't get my hopes up at all.
>
> What else is included in your "5 year plan"?

Well ASw20 if your are really!!! looking for a hangar for rent at SLGP I have one to rent. But my guess is that you are just a provocateur so I wont get my hopes up.

Well ASW-20, please contact me at or 407-325-6500 and I can give you our goals.

Best Regards,
Rich Owen

Asw20 is Sean

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 9:29:45 PM UTC-4, Kevin Christner wrote:
> Asw20 is Sean

What a jerk! Asw20 that is. Get a life.

On Tuesday, 16 May 2017 07:20:44 UTC-4, wrote:
> On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 9:29:45 PM UTC-4, Kevin Christner wrote:
> > Asw20 is Sean
>
> What a jerk! Asw20 that is. Get a life.

For those of us that fly at Seminole, and I am a Canadian snowbird who has been doing so for the past 15 winters, the operation is a jewel. And Rich, who was a client and a member of the enviable DG syndicate, has taken on the management in a very unselfish and club-like culture fashion, and he too is a jewel.

If you don't know the operation, I suggest you visit next winter and discover it yourself. If you do know the operation, your comments surprise, puzzle and offend me. I don't know any of the locals who would disagree with the above.

I can tell you that ASW20 is not the Sean (Fidler) that I know. In business you cannot please every customer that walks in the door. Sometimes it's due to weather, aircraft mechanical or simply an employee that had a bad day. The vast majority of pilots are a fun group to be around. People who use the anonymity of the internet to post less than positive thoughts should seek professional help. There must be an underlying reason why ASW20 has such a difficulty with Seminole Lake Gliderport. After trying to engage him via email and on Rec Aviation Soaring, I'm no longer going to respond to his posts. I would ask the rest of our friends to let his threads die on the vine. His rants don't deserve our time as a group of aviation enthusiasts.

Sincerely,
Rich Owen
Vice President
Seminole Flying and Soaring

Sorry Rich, but thats unfortunately the case. I'm assuming that you did a lot of work to support Sean's goal of brining "glider racing" to the US with the Seminole Lakes Grand Prix, but as you'll see below, Sean is well known for attacking those he publicly claims to support.

It looks like Sean has gotten more sophisticated and is posting from Google's web interface to mask his IP address, but you can see the thread where Sean created an alias to attack Paul Remde and Daryll was able to track him down via IP here:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.aviation.soaring/VKqhnFDw2T8/TpL2Xs4vDIkJ;context-place=msg/rec.aviation.soaring/47SxSc-if7M/DnSveMYkCAAJ

Similar to his attacks on you, he created a new alias as many of his other alias' have already been uncovered. Google groups will show you that asw20pilot has only posted regarding Seminole Lake.

Then take a look at the thread here where the real Sean congratulates Paul for being almost 50% of the way to his goal:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.aviation.soaring/We1RwUZ4zdw/KTp8uP8ZHmUJ;context-place=searchin/rec.aviation.soaring/paul$20remde$20cumulus$20soaring%7Csort:relevance

We can also take a look at his language to see that its the same sentence structures that the real Sean uses. All of the key items he wants to highlight are included in quotes. For example from this thread:

What else is included in your "5 year plan"?

Other examples from other threads I randomly pulled:

>>Unfortunately, we are being told “just be happy” using
the old version until (wink, wink) the XC Soar folks..."bow" like the
others to our divine power! :-)

>>Well, we have been "standing by" for three months now...

He also uses 4 (and almost always 4) exclamation points for emphasis:

From this thread:

>>>it won't happen anytime soon at that rate!!!

Here is one message:

>>Just amazing how those PW-5's were produced at affordable prices!!!
>>Wow!!!!

And here is an nice excerpt where he uses both in one sentence:

>>Good morning "Turn Area Task only" not racing fans!!!

I've been reading res for 15+ years and I don't know of anyone else that uses four exclamation points, let alone in almost every message like Sean. Now, unless someone is taking the time to a) malign you and b) put in the effort to copy Sean's sentence structure exactly, asw20 is Sean. Its just a continuation of a pattern of behavior thats well identified. Just because he is your friend in person, and when real Sean is posting, does not mean he is above trying to destroy your character while cowardly hiding behind aliases.




On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 7:11:58 AM UTC-4, Rich Owen wrote:
> I can tell you that ASW20 is not the Sean (Fidler) that I know. In business you cannot please every customer that walks in the door. Sometimes it's due to weather, aircraft mechanical or simply an employee that had a bad day. The vast majority of pilots are a fun group to be around. People who use the anonymity of the internet to post less than positive thoughts should seek professional help. There must be an underlying reason why ASW20 has such a difficulty with Seminole Lake Gliderport. After trying to engage him via email and on Rec Aviation Soaring, I'm no longer going to respond to his posts. I would ask the rest of our friends to let his threads die on the vine. His rants don't deserve our time as a group of aviation enthusiasts.
>
> Sincerely,
> Rich Owen
> Vice President
> Seminole Flying and Soaring

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 12:08:43 PM UTC-4, Kevin Christner wrote:
> Sorry Rich, but thats unfortunately the case. I'm assuming that you did a lot of work to support Sean's goal of brining "glider racing" to the US with the Seminole Lakes Grand Prix, but as you'll see below, Sean is well known for attacking those he publicly claims to support.
>
> It looks like Sean has gotten more sophisticated and is posting from Google's web interface to mask his IP address, but you can see the thread where Sean created an alias to attack Paul Remde and Daryll was able to track him down via IP here:
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.aviation.soaring/VKqhnFDw2T8/TpL2Xs4vDIkJ;context-place=msg/rec.aviation.soaring/47SxSc-if7M/DnSveMYkCAAJ
>
> Similar to his attacks on you, he created a new alias as many of his other alias' have already been uncovered. Google groups will show you that asw20pilot has only posted regarding Seminole Lake.
>
> Then take a look at the thread here where the real Sean congratulates Paul for being almost 50% of the way to his goal:
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.aviation.soaring/We1RwUZ4zdw/KTp8uP8ZHmUJ;context-place=searchin/rec.aviation.soaring/paul$20remde$20cumulus$20soaring%7Csort:relevance
>
> We can also take a look at his language to see that its the same sentence structures that the real Sean uses. All of the key items he wants to highlight are included in quotes. For example from this thread:
>
> What else is included in your "5 year plan"?
>
> Other examples from other threads I randomly pulled:
>
> >>Unfortunately, we are being told “just be happy” using
> the old version until (wink, wink) the XC Soar folks..."bow" like the
> others to our divine power! :-)
>
> >>Well, we have been "standing by" for three months now...
>
> He also uses 4 (and almost always 4) exclamation points for emphasis:
>
> From this thread:
>
> >>>it won't happen anytime soon at that rate!!!
>
> Here is one message:
>
> >>Just amazing how those PW-5's were produced at affordable prices!!!
> >>Wow!!!!
>
> And here is an nice excerpt where he uses both in one sentence:
>
> >>Good morning "Turn Area Task only" not racing fans!!!
>
> I've been reading res for 15+ years and I don't know of anyone else that uses four exclamation points, let alone in almost every message like Sean. Now, unless someone is taking the time to a) malign you and b) put in the effort to copy Sean's sentence structure exactly, asw20 is Sean. Its just a continuation of a pattern of behavior thats well identified. Just because he is your friend in person, and when real Sean is posting, does not mean he is above trying to destroy your character while cowardly hiding behind aliases.
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 7:11:58 AM UTC-4, Rich Owen wrote:
> > I can tell you that ASW20 is not the Sean (Fidler) that I know. In business you cannot please every customer that walks in the door. Sometimes it's due to weather, aircraft mechanical or simply an employee that had a bad day. The vast majority of pilots are a fun group to be around. People who use the anonymity of the internet to post less than positive thoughts should seek professional help. There must be an underlying reason why ASW20 has such a difficulty with Seminole Lake Gliderport. After trying to engage him via email and on Rec Aviation Soaring, I'm no longer going to respond to his posts. I would ask the rest of our friends to let his threads die on the vine. His rants don't deserve our time as a group of aviation enthusiasts..
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Rich Owen
> > Vice President
> > Seminole Flying and Soaring

Kevin, I think you see Sean everywhere. You did not show any prove that this alias belongs to Sean, exclamation mark or quotes, really?

I think, I have a good suspension who this alias belongs to and I think Rich might have the same suspicion, but unless there is evidence it is just that a suspicion. I can only tell you the person I am thinking about had a run in with both the Seminole Gliderport owner and Sean. Yep! You hear this right, so be careful with posts like this one if you have no evidence.

Not sure why some people are so hung up on bashing someplace. I can think of lots of better things to do with my spare time.

I hadn't been to Seminole Lake in over 20 years. I towed one year for the seniors.

I showed up this winter, checked out, and took one of their shiny gliders up for a couple of flights. Paid my bill, and went home happy. I only had a few hours to spend, and I enjoyed it very much.

I'll be stopping by in future years with an RV, and plan to stay a while. It's a nice place.

JP

Kevin might work for the liberal media, as he presents false claims and no evidence as "truth"!!!!

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 8:01:38 AM UTC-5, Rich Owen wrote:
> In response to ASW20's post regarding our hangar project, here is an update.
>
> Our capital improvement plan covers a 5 year period and includes new hangars. We have the money and the owners support. A contractor has been found but permitting in the Green Swamp Conservation area is difficult. Still, we are proceeding forward. We finished a drainage project before the Seniors which corrected a serious flooding problem. Thank you for checking up on us. Please let us know when your ready to lease a hangar.
>
> Sincerely,
> Rich Owen
> Vice President
> Seminole Flying and Soaring

Instead of bashing anyone, I'll take this opportunity to confirm: Seminole is a wonderful place! My logbook shows I first visited there in Dec. 2005 and have been quite a regular visitor/consumer since, including last February. My beloved place to go and soar between December and March, with temperatures reaching the 80s while being down to the 20s and lower in Midwest. Friendly crew and visiting pilots, palm trees, oranges, silence or cicadas (or whatever makes that noise at night) etc., etc. Unforgettable memories.

Forgot to add: Rich, please sign me up for short-term rentals of the new hangar space, once it's built. Also, I'd love to see more T-Hangars available for those few days visits to keep the assembled glider protected from the weather.

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 10:31:56 PM UTC-4, Tom BravoMike wrote:
> Forgot to add: Rich, please sign me up for short-term rentals of the new hangar space, once it's built. Also, I'd love to see more T-Hangars available for those few days visits to keep the assembled glider protected from the weather.

Yes, more hangar space so we can keep our gliders there for winter.

Andrzej

> I think, I have a good suspension who this alias belongs to and I think Rich might have the same suspicion, but unless there is evidence it is just that a suspicion. I can only tell you the person I am thinking about had a run in with both the Seminole Gliderport owner and Sean. Yep! You hear this right, so be careful with posts like this one if you have no evidence.

Analysis of textual language is considered evidence and used in court all of the time. For example the text of a letter with an unknown author is compared to one from the suspect to determine if the same person wrote them. It is accepted testimony from expert witnesses for the jury to decide. You may not find it convincing, but you didn't find it convincing when Daryll tracked down Sean's IP address to one of his aliases earlier. Plenty of other well informed people can read the tea-leaves.

And let me present the evidence to you that your suspicion is incorrect. Sean got his aliases a little confused and had asw20 support him in the US Team list thread:

>>So let me get this straight. Am I reading this correctly that a pilot with a lower ranking number can be selected over a pilot with a higher ranking number based on votes?

>>Sorry, if you win a national contest and your ranking is 100.0, you should have first dibs on representing the United States...you won the right to do that.

>>Is the SSA really going to let "politics" decide who gets to go? What the hell kind of crap is this?

>>So we SUCK as a country in the world championship, and we are going to let lower performing pilots represent the country - based on votes? WOW!

So are you saying asw20, an alias that has now posted a grand total of six times about Seminole Lakes and once about the US Team, is so smart that since everyone knows he had a run in with Sean, he will cover his tracks by being a Sean ditto-head on another thread?

One personal note, your continued defense of someone who threatened to come to my home armed with a gun, put me in a straight jacket and torture me is only further enabling Sean's bullying of me an others (like Seminole Lake, where you apparently fly). Enablers are just as guilty as the one doing the deed.

Rich and I are friends, and I have been to Seminole Lake Gliderport a bunch of times over the past six years (including for two weeks a month ago). I love flying at Seminole. I wish I could be there more. I am excited about next season where Seminole will host the FAI SGP USA and the 18-meter Nationals. I am a huge fan of the location and the people who run the place, reside there, and especially of the pilots who fly there regularly each winter. Of course, I have no interest in hangars as I'm usually only able to be there for a week or two at most and usually park my glider at Mr. Farrington's house (with my dad). If lucky, like this year for the FAI SGP USA, I get to park near the clubhouse and main hangar for competitions. So, buying a hangar is not on my radar, even if I was aware of this pointless **** fight.

Amusing as always, your resident SJW and deeply fragile, conspiracy theorist is once again "seeing dead people" and lashing out mindlessly (and spittle spray) at anything that triggers her. I have no further comment or interest in such idiocy. https://img.memesuper.com/7c3e218722d0b8ee2ccfd957287c6707_i-see-dead-people-i-see-dead-people-meme_600-450.jpeg

For the record, Seminole Lake Gliderport (SLG) is one of the very best soaring locations in the United States for several reasons. First, in terms of winter soaring in North America, SLG is one of the few east coast options for a soaring vacation. Everything you need is there and ready to go, seven days a week. Second, it's geographic location in Florida is ideal. For flying, its location regarding airspace and distance from the major ocean shores and sea breeze fronts are perfect. SLG is also close to Orlando's world-class entertainment. Third, it's soaring facilities themselves are outstanding (staff, instructors, tow equipment, rental and ride ships, aerobatic training and rides, motorhome power, beautiful grounds, pool, etc.). Much of this excellence is due to Rich who has taken on the leadership role (to help his friends and the many who frequent the glider port) and ensured the facility is maintained and continuously improved (enormously frankly). Rich works very, very hard at this along with his great team of employees who are all outstanding. The amount of effort that Rich and his team puts into that place is almost immeasurably (albeit unnoticed and perhaps underappreciated). Hell, Rich even mows the damn lawn! For me, working with the gang at SLG for the SGP was pure pleasure, and I already look forward to improving and expanding on that great success next season.

Sean Fidler
ASG-29 - 7T
Michigan USA

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 9:01:38 AM UTC-4, Rich Owen wrote:
> In response to ASW20's post regarding our hangar project, here is an update.
>
> Our capital improvement plan covers a 5 year period and includes new hangars. We have the money and the owners support. A contractor has been found but permitting in the Green Swamp Conservation area is difficult. Still, we are proceeding forward. We finished a drainage project before the Seniors which corrected a serious flooding problem. Thank you for checking up on us. Please let us know when your ready to lease a hangar.
>
> Sincerely,
> Rich Owen
> Vice President
> Seminole Flying and Soaring

On Thursday, 18 May 2017 08:59:56 UTC-6, << Sean Fidler wrote:
I am excited about next season where Seminole will host the FAI SGP USA and the 18-meter Nationals.>>

Sean are you announcing that Seminole is hosting the 2018 18 Meter Nationals? Nothing on the SSA calendar. The query for 2018 contests returns' NO CONTESTS FOUND

So what are the dates for 2018 18 Meter Nationals?

On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 11:12:55 AM UTC-6, Ron Gleason wrote:
> On Thursday, 18 May 2017 08:59:56 UTC-6, << Sean Fidler wrote:
> I am excited about next season where Seminole will host the FAI SGP USA and the 18-meter Nationals.>>
>
> Sean are you announcing that Seminole is hosting the 2018 18 Meter Nationals? Nothing on the SSA calendar. The query for 2018 contests returns' NO CONTESTS FOUND
>
> So what are the dates for 2018 18 Meter Nationals?

Rich also informed me that the 18's in 2018 were to be in Seminole...or they put in a bid for them? I am just not sure but I also believe the time frame was for May. We were chatting before launch and I could be mistaken on time and if it was an award.

Best. Tom #711

On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 9:01:53 AM UTC-4, Kevin Christner wrote:
> > I think, I have a good suspension who this alias belongs to and I think Rich might have the same suspicion, but unless there is evidence it is just that a suspicion. I can only tell you the person I am thinking about had a run in with both the Seminole Gliderport owner and Sean. Yep! You hear this right, so be careful with posts like this one if you have no evidence.
>
> Analysis of textual language is considered evidence and used in court all of the time. For example the text of a letter with an unknown author is compared to one from the suspect to determine if the same person wrote them. It is accepted testimony from expert witnesses for the jury to decide. You may not find it convincing, but you didn't find it convincing when Daryll tracked down Sean's IP address to one of his aliases earlier. Plenty of other well informed people can read the tea-leaves.
>
> And let me present the evidence to you that your suspicion is incorrect. Sean got his aliases a little confused and had asw20 support him in the US Team list thread:
>
> >>So let me get this straight. Am I reading this correctly that a pilot with a lower ranking number can be selected over a pilot with a higher ranking number based on votes?
>
> >>Sorry, if you win a national contest and your ranking is 100.0, you should have first dibs on representing the United States...you won the right to do that.
>
> >>Is the SSA really going to let "politics" decide who gets to go? What the hell kind of crap is this?
>
> >>So we SUCK as a country in the world championship, and we are going to let lower performing pilots represent the country - based on votes? WOW!
>
> So are you saying asw20, an alias that has now posted a grand total of six times about Seminole Lakes and once about the US Team, is so smart that since everyone knows he had a run in with Sean, he will cover his tracks by being a Sean ditto-head on another thread?
>
> One personal note, your continued defense of someone who threatened to come to my home armed with a gun, put me in a straight jacket and torture me is only further enabling Sean's bullying of me an others (like Seminole Lake, where you apparently fly). Enablers are just as guilty as the one doing the deed.

Kevin, you have real problems. I simply pointed to you that you have zero evidence, but yet you are quick to name someone on a public forum. You need to get a life and move on. It will do a lot of good for your health if you do so. Since now you attacked me I no longer consider your posts worth replying.

Ron,

We are planning the 18 Meter Nationals during the month of May. We are deconflicting with the Region 5 North and Miffin contests that do not have dates yet. We want to ensure pilots have the ability to attend all 3 contests if they desire. By setting dates too early, and without any coordination, we hamper the plans of other contest management staff. All of us want to provide the best contests possible and not force pilots to choose one over another based on overlapping dates. This contest has not been officially sanctioned by the SSA, so that is why it had not been announced. Sorry for any confusion this has caused.

Rich Owen
Vice President
Seminole Flying and Soaring

On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 10:28:25 PM UTC-4, Rich Owen wrote:
> Ron,
>
> We are planning the 18 Meter Nationals during the month of May. We are deconflicting with the Region 5 North and Miffin contests that do not have dates yet. We want to ensure pilots have the ability to attend all 3 contests if they desire. By setting dates too early, and without any coordination, we hamper the plans of other contest management staff. All of us want to provide the best contests possible and not force pilots to choose one over another based on overlapping dates. This contest has not been officially sanctioned by the SSA, so that is why it had not been announced. Sorry for any confusion this has caused.
>
> Rich Owen
> Vice President
> Seminole Flying and Soaring

Rich, have you thought about April instead? Less likely to have thunderstorms in April?

On Thursday, 18 May 2017 20:28:25 UTC-6, Rich Owen wrote:
> Ron,
>
> We are planning the 18 Meter Nationals during the month of May. We are deconflicting with the Region 5 North and Miffin contests that do not have dates yet. We want to ensure pilots have the ability to attend all 3 contests if they desire. By setting dates too early, and without any coordination, we hamper the plans of other contest management staff. All of us want to provide the best contests possible and not force pilots to choose one over another based on overlapping dates. This contest has not been officially sanctioned by the SSA, so that is why it had not been announced. Sorry for any confusion this has caused.
>
> Rich Owen
> Vice President
> Seminole Flying and Soaring

Rich thanks for the update and your continued willingness to host and support contests. Your efforts to coordinate with other venues is great but that has been done by the SSA in the past. Typically National contests are set 2 years in advance so other contests can work around the dates.

Other folks that have submitted requests to host National contests for 2018 have not heard from the SSA. Many are in the same boat as you Rich.

Sounds like SE USA for 2018 will the hub for the beginning of the contest season; March for the Seniors, April for the SGP and May for the 18 Meter Nationals.

Rich thanks again to you and the other folks at Seminole for your support of soaring and hosting racing (gasp!) events!

Ron Gleason

PS - I got my ticket at Seminole (Knut and Jim Lee) and in the early 2000's spent each spring in the central FL area flying and competing in HG contests. All that changed after the 2006 HG worlds held 15 miles north of Seminole when I started flying gliders. Time to get to FL in the spring. Yahoo!

Sorry if I jumped the gun in discussing the 18 meter Nationals. I thought it was a done deal. Perhaps not. I certainly hope so. Seminole would be a really fun venue for Nationals.

Andrzej that's funny. The first thing I did when I heard about is Seminole 18m Nationals in May 2018 (during SGP USA last month) was also to try and convince Rich to go with April. I had similar reasons. The reason they were thinking May was, at least partially, to avoid interfering with Perry. I believe that there were also sensible reasons such as staff exhaustion. With the 2018 FAI SGP USA Orlando again scheduled for late March (also 18 meter), a corresponding April 18 meter Nationals would be extremely efficient for pilots looking to compete in both events. Some of the Europeans and Australians who are already beginning to plan for FAI SGP USA 2018 could potentially do compete in both events "back to back."

Scheduling contests is always a challenge. Regardless of the dates, Seminole will be a hot spot next season. They will likely host three great events by May. My entire soaring season may be competed with only one major drive ;-).

Sean

Rich,

I'm glad to see you guys are expanding at Seminole Lake Gliderport and looking to host 18m Nats, Seniors, and SGP. Surely Seminole Lake is a model for commercial operations and contest managers (host clubs) alike.

Just curious... do you have a wait list for hangar space once the hangars are constructed? Do you have an idea what a lease would run? My club might consider parking a glider or two down at Seminole Lake during the winter months sometime in the future. If I could get some ballpark numbers I can gauge interest and see that it gets considered by our Board.

Will be in touch. Keep up the great work you're doing there!

Chris Schrader, Treasurer
Sandhill Soaring Club
Ann Arbor, MI

*SSA Director, Region 6 (MI,OH,IN,KY)

Chris,

We have 5 out of 8 hangars rented already. We were going to start the rent at $220 a month which is well below market in Orlando. Each would accommodate an 18 meter ship without taking the tips off. That would mean a 20 meter ship would fit without tips. Electrical power will be included inside each hangar with water available on the outside. Two storage areas are in the complex. One would be available for owners for stowage. We are trying to include a lean too structure for trailer storage that would be covered. The DG hangar would stow all the company's training gliders. We would encourage renters to stow their gliders in the box and sublet the hangar during the Seniors or other contests.

Hope that answers all your questions.

Best Regards,
Rich